Fumier points out that Hemlock has now been posting his diary on-line for two years. For some reason, I had imagined that it was longer than that, but I’m not sure why. Like Fumier, I came across Hemlock on IceRed in the days when it was possible to have an intelligent debate there (didn’t happen often, but it wasn’t completely out of the question).

Fumier describes Hemlock as “the grandfather of Hong Kong blogging”, which I think is slightly misleading. Perhaps he did inspire other people to start blogs, but not me – what I liked about other blogs was the way they linked to each other, which is not something that Hemlock does.

BWG apparently started in 1998, long before Hemlock, and his site certainly looks more like a blog, but again it has very few links to other blogs.

One more thing that these two sites have in common is that they don’t follow the standard blogging practice of allowing comments to be posted. I know that this is open to abuse, but it is also an excellent way of connecting up blogs, especially as current and aspiring bloggers post most of the comments (in part because they can advertise their sites) with Ron being one of the most active participants in this sport.

Fumier says that he is considering dropping comments from his blog, but I think he has been talked out of it. He says he wants to retain an air of mystery, in which case one option is to allow comments but not to respond yourself.

My biggest problem (he says, finally getting to the point he wanted to make) is that I can’t resist posting comments when I disagree with people. Most recently this has been about the BBC, but I also found time to point out to Simon that he had got it wrong about UN resolution 1441. Unfortunately, people aren’t as grateful as they should be when you point these things out, and some of them even carry on arguing.

The stupid thing is that I know that the best plan is simply to avoid getting drawn into these debates. The active participants have almost certainly made up their minds already, and sadly there probably aren’t many other people following the discussion. I know from my own experience that the most disheartening thing that can happen is for a post to be ignored completely (no comments, no links, no emails), and so if I really disagree with someone it is probably best to say nothing. Unfortunately, I keep forgetting this and waste my time trying to convince people that the Licence Fee is not a tax or that UN Resolution 1441 didn’t authorize the US to invade Iraq. Stupid boy.

UPDATE: It seems that this has been read as an attack on other bloggers, when actually it is not intended that way, and shouldn’t be taken too seriously. I think comments are a good thing, I want people to add comments to my blog, I will carry on adding comments to other blogs, and Ron has far more visitors than me. All these things are undoubtedly true. Also, irony doesn’t always work very well in a blog.

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10 responses to “No comment”

  1. Nicholas Liu avatar

    I should be so lucky to have problems with heated debates. These days I probably couldn’t get even a lukewarm debate started on my blog if I doused the Pope in alcohol and flambed him.

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  2. Chris avatar

    Maybe you should post less photographs of book shelves!

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  3. Andrés avatar

    Sometimes the point of arguing is not to convince the other person but to refine our own opinions. There shouldn’t be anything disheartening about the License Fee debate or any others, provided they are done in good faith.

    Unfortunately, people aren’t as grateful as they should be when you point these things out, and some of them even carry on arguing.

    I wouldn’t call myself ungrateful at all. You pointed out places where my words had gone too far or where my facts were in error.
    As for carrying on with my points: perhaps that’s because I believe what I write. No doubt the same belief animates you when you carry on with your points. I fail to see why this is a bad thing if we have defensible facts and reasons to back up those beliefs and if they are set forth in a civil manner.
    It’s true enough that in the end I continued to disagree with your view on the License Fee. I am satisfied I laid out good reasons for doing so and am equally satisfied you laid out good reasons that might sway others. However, they swayed me no more than I swayed you and until someone can prove they have a lock on The Truth we’ll have to continue living in this world of contestable interpretations.
    Bjorn Staerk is always a good place to go for intelligent opinions and I think some of his comments on this thread show the value of disagreeng.

    When I say I want people to disagree with me, I literally mean that it would be a good thing if someone were to contradict everything I ever said, and then hang around to defend that position. The more articulate and polite the better. Not because it would lead to everyone hugging and coming around to each others point of view, but to force us all to weed out the week parts of our ideas. The only place to do that is on the battlefield of ideas, not in cozy chats with people who basically agree with each other.

    Calling your comments on my or other people’s blog entries a waste of time is not the right way to go. If you’re wasting your time then you’re wasting my time too since I responded in good faith and assumed you believed in your opinions and had the facts to sustain them.

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  4. Chris avatar

    I think you may have misunderstood my comments slightly, Andrés. The bit about “people not being grateful” was not meant to be taken seriously! I don’t expect any thanks for adding comments!!
    I was frustrated with this particular debate because I don’t think the argument moved forward at all. Ultimately, I did feel that it was a waste of time because there are many other things I could have done, and I only blame myself for that. I am puzzled that you think that this means that I didn’t believe what I wrote – I only commented because I did feel strongly and I wanted to express my point of view.
    As you well know, the facts about the licence fee are fairly clear. You choose to interpret it as a tax, which is factually incorrect but I will concede that it is not a totally outrageous way to present it (if it suits your argument).
    I can’t comment on whether you were wasting your time, but we all have the choice as to whether to get into this type of debate. My problem is that I have a strange compulsion to do it, and I repeat that I only blame myself for this.

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  5. Ron avatar

    Chris,
    I take objection to your statement that:

    “but it is also an excellent way of connecting up blogs, especially as current and aspiring bloggers post most of the comments (in part because they can advertise their sites – Ron being one of the most active participants in this sport).”

    I don’t comment on people’s site to advertise my blog. In fact, I don’t need no indirect advertisement as you can find out from any search engine you choose.
    On the contrary, I make it a habit to at least introduce three new blogs every week [since last month] and I go out of my way to announce and promote them at my blog. I can hardly see any other Asian blogger doing the same, except of course Phil and Conrad?
    Most bloggers I have recently promoted have send me email or notes saying they can’t link me because I have girlie pictures. Fair enough. But I still promote and link them.
    Aspire to what? I am lost!
    You are giving me a message that I should stop commenting on other people’s blog just cuz I am aspiring?
    P.s.: You can drop my blog from your blog list and after today I will stop commenting here. I really do not care…
    Cheers!

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  6. Nicholas Liu avatar

    Chill, guys. I don’t think Chris is being as serious as you think he is. Statements like ‘[u]nfortunately, people aren’t as grateful as they should be when you point these things out, and some of them even carry on arguing’ and ‘in part because they can advertise their sites – Ron being one of the most active participants in this sport’ seem to me to be clearly humorous.
    And for the record, Chris, I’ll have you know that some people feel very strongly about bookshelves. Like me.

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  7. Simon avatar

    Chris, I must take issue here. Even though I can see that some parts of your post were in jest there seems to be some degree of feeling underlying it too.
    The reality is a comments section is for whatever anyone wants to say about the post. With regards to the licence fee or UN posts, I thought there was a geniune debate on the issues. No-one’s mind was changed but it certainly helps refine and define the points on both sides. I certainly disagree that the issues didn’t move forward: on licence fees myself, yourself and Andres all posted as well as commented and it’s clear where we all stand.
    The main point of my post titled Stone was exactly this: blogging is a way of forcing people to re-assess, research and redefine their views of the world. Comments are an integral part of that process.

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  8. Chris avatar

    I think Nicholas is right.
    Ron – I apologize if I was unfair to you, but it certainly wasn’t meant as a criticism. Adding comments is good for everyone and I’ve always regarded linking, trackbacks and comments as part of the game – if anyone was being criticized it was Hemlock and (to a lesser extent) BWG, for not playing the game (but I think they are fully entitled to do things their own way). I perhaps deserve criticism for not drawing attention to enough new or interesting blogs, and I’ll bear that in mind.
    Simon – please don’t get me wrong: I totally and absolutely agree that comments are an integral part of blogging, and I appreciate it when people take the trouble to post their thoughts here. All I was pointing out was that a serious debate is quite time-consuming, especially if you try to check your facts and post links.
    Perhaps one of the issues here is that I feel a bit guilty about spending time on all this stuff when I could be working or spending time with my family. I am not complaining about what anyone else is doing!!

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  9. Ron avatar

    No need for any apologies Chris. Let us all just forget these issues and move on. Shall we?
    For me blogging is just a hobby and a bit of intrigued love, same as my love towards women.
    Cheers!

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  10. Phil avatar

    Ron, you love something else apart from Women? I under estimated you 🙂

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